Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

General discussion of the Project Reality: BF2 modification.
CanuckCommander
Posts: 431
Joined: 2008-03-19 02:25

Post by CanuckCommander »

Let me clarify. When I said "choppers are underpowered," I meant by comparing to RL attack helos (though PR choppers do need some more improvements). BTW, in response to people suggesting that I should fly with better tactics, I agree with SPAZ because that is exactly how I fly, low on Qinling and High on Kashan. I never explained the way I fly helos so there might have been a confusion.

Hi fellow PR members,

Summary:The attack helicopters need some improvements because they are underpowered now. They are more vulnerable than most vehicles, from AAV, TANKS, JETS, INFANTRY, etc. (and yes i've done my research on and off the forums).

I am a regular PR helicopter pilot who especially likes to fly the attack helicopters. Sometimes I am just frustrated at some aspects of how the A-Helos(Attack Helicopters) are implemented in PR. I posted this in General Discussions because I would like to discuss this with the community rather than putting this in the suggestions forum where very few discussions occur.


Helicopters' Areas of Improvement:

I acknowledge the limitations of the BF2 engine and will make suggestions that are balanced between realism and fun.

Offensive:

1) The pilot needs some kind a zoom (in RL pilots have their own optics). Even though if it can't rotate, some sort of zoom would be helpful in spotting targets. The HUD would remain when zoomed in so the pilot can still level the Helo. I'm pretty sure this is posible by making a different camera view for the pilot to choose. It would be better if the pilot can still free ctrl look zoomed in.

WHY? So many times I've spotted a tank silhouette while flying low in front of me, but the gunner was too slow in confirming the Operational status (dead or alive) of the enemy tank, resulting in getting our helo shot by the tank.

2) Allow Helo pilots to switch between rockets and AA missiles with "F" key, freeing the right mouse button (maybe for laser designation by the pilot with the above suggested zoom function)? This also eliminates situations when Helos are forced to give away their position due to unplanned missile lock of enemy aircraft.

Edit,

3) Due to the lack of a stabilization and tracking system, perhaps there should be a 3rd missile firing mode where missiles are allowed to be dumb-fired, meaning it will not track the laser/mouse like in laser guided mode. This would allow helos to fire and forget at stationary targets, making the helos more effective. In order to allow max accuracy, maybe have the missile track for a short amount of time so it flies in the correct course (maybe say 0.5 seconds) towards the directed target, then the gunner is free to look around in the missile cam without the missile still following the designator. (I don't know if this can be done with the Bf2 engine though).

4) The useless and sight hindering black and white camera view for the gunner should be removed. I'm sure Gunships have color cameras in their optics. Black and white is a very poor replacement for Infrared which clearly contrasts target and terrain.

Deffensive:

1)Helicopter's flares needs to shoot outwards and away from the helicopter. Image

In PR, the flares deploy but sort of floats around the helicopter, which is useless because the AA missile detonate with proximity and the helo still gets damaged even though flares deployed. Helos need outward shooting flares more than jets because helos fly at a slower speed.

Edit,

2) Helicopter's speed indicator should have a positive for moving forward and negative for moving backwards.


That is just a few suggestions, any fellow Helicopter pilots want to comment and add your complaints and suggestions, pls feel free to do so and I will add it to main thread.
Last edited by CanuckCommander on 2008-05-10 01:52, edited 9 times in total.
Waaah_Wah
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Joined: 2007-07-26 13:55

Re: Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

Post by Waaah_Wah »

They are working brilliant right now. Fly at 600-800 meters and you wont get shot down by tanks. Let your gunner do the spotting and consentrate on flying the damn thing.
Never argue with an idiot, he will just drag you down to his level and beat you by experience ;)

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Sirsolo
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Post by Sirsolo »

Waaah_Wah wrote: Fly at 600-800 meters
Only Knobs and bad pilots fly that High =P Nuck is between the trees. Try doing that and getting top two like we do.

Oh em geeeeeeee... Yeah. I agree with them all.. seeing as I discussed it with you prior to your posts.

Some more tho.. off the top of my head:
Perhaps having the Guns on the heli have a function where they remain stationary even as the helicopters move. It's quite annoying when you need those 2 seconds to hit the target with laser guided when the heli (after remaining perfectly still and vulnerable) has to evade... in most cases, an APC... =_= (STUPID?!?!)
Waaah_Wah
Posts: 3167
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Re: Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

Post by Waaah_Wah »

Sirsolo wrote:Only Knobs and bad pilots fly that High =P Nuck is between the trees. Try doing that and getting shot down by tanks, APCs and vodniks all the time.

Oh em geeeeeeee... Yeah. I agree with them all.. seeing as I discussed it with you prior to your posts.
Fixy fixy
Sirsolo wrote:Some more tho.. off the top of my head:
Perhaps having the Guns on the heli have a function where they remain stationary even as the helicopters move. It's quite annoying when you need those 2 seconds to hit the target with laser guided when the heli (after remaining perfectly still and vulnerable) has to evade... in most cases, an APC... =_= (STUPID?!?!)
Thats why you fly high. You see everything from above but they barely see you. Tanks and APCs cant even aim that high so your only treats are AAV's and other chopters. AAV's rarely drive around and look into the sky, so those are easy as hell to deal with. Other chopters rarely fly that high so your gunner can kill them with his MG.
Never argue with an idiot, he will just drag you down to his level and beat you by experience ;)

Killing for peace is like f*cking for virginity

I :33_love: Jaymz
CanuckCommander
Posts: 431
Joined: 2008-03-19 02:25

Re: Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

Post by CanuckCommander »

Waaah_Wah wrote:They are working brilliant right now. Fly at 600-800 meters and you wont get shot down by tanks. Let your gunner do the spotting and consentrate on flying the damn thing.
Realistically speaking, no attack helicopters fly that high due to AA risk from jets and AAV. http://youtube.com/watch?v=5bDcukC12Ro[/youtube]

PR-ly (yea i made that up) speaking, attack helicopters flying that high are still very vulnerable to jets. If you are getting lots of kills flying that high on Kashan then that is understandable because there is now cover to fly low. But if you are lasting a long time on Qingling while flying really high, then you've never flied against good jet pilots on the other side. The high sky is jet haven, you cannot beat a jet at that altitude in an attack helicopter.

BTW, I used to fly really high, but now i find that flying between the trees and using the hills as cover on Qinling is very effective.

EDIT,

Also it is extremely boring for the pilot to fly at high altitudes and limits the spotting of targets to the gunner while the pilot does very little.
ragchan
Posts: 57
Joined: 2008-04-07 23:04

Re: Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

Post by ragchan »

Flying low is more realistic, but none of your suggestions would really help make it an effective way to fly. In real life the apache can hit targets from 6-8 km away, thats just not possible in bf2 engine. Flying high is just the best way currently.

BTW, its very easy to shoot down jets with the attack choppers.
77SiCaRiO77
Retired PR Developer
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Re: Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

Post by 77SiCaRiO77 »

Waaah_Wah wrote:They are working brilliant right now. Fly at 600-800 meters and you wont get shot down by tanks. Let your gunner do the spotting and consentrate on flying the damn thing.
ok, that dosent change the fact that pilots have optics IRL and since this is a realistic mod they should have it too.

choppers are "brilliant" but they can be BETTER.
DeltaFart
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Re: Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

Post by DeltaFart »

I agree with these, only thing I dont like in PR now is the fact that AAV still are one manned!!! :fryingpan your dropping the ball devs
Spaz
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Re: Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

Post by Spaz »

When me and bond is flying on quinlin we fly low and hide behind hill, and when we got a target we get up and take it down with the guided missile. The reason why we use the guided is that its faster and you don't need any crew on the ground helping you out.

And on kashan you should just fly as high as posible, the only thing that you need to be afraid of the attack helicopter on the enemy team. Point and click (watch moras video ;) )

The attack helicopter is perfect and almost over power in the right hands, the only thing i would like to see is a stabilizator for the gunner.
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bosco_
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Re: Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

Post by bosco_ »

Spaz is teh right
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Tartantyco
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Re: Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

Post by Tartantyco »

-I would like to point out that choppers like the Eurocopter 365, LB with miniguns and WZ-11 are extremely useless right now. They have to flow low and be very close to their targets in order to do any damage but they're so weak you can basically take them out with a pistol. On Kashan they can't do very much and most of the time I spend hovering around behind the front line because if I try to move to the front I'll get the "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" the moment I pop my head up or get taken down by APC/Tank/.50 cal fire. There's not really much you can do with the design of the chopper(Maybe increase it's "health") so I propose that the respawn time for it is drastically reduced. Right now you have to wait just as long for these choppers as you have to wait for the A-10, Apache, etc, and that's just stupid. On less material heavy maps the respawn could be a little higher but on maps like Kashan it's basically useless with it's current respawn time(Oh how I love to hunt supply trucks with my Eurocopter...).
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Spaz
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Re: Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

Post by Spaz »

[R-PUB]bosco wrote:Spaz is teh right
As always....
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Darkpowder
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Re: Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

Post by Darkpowder »

Spaz wrote:When me and bond is flying on quinlin we fly low and hide behind hill, and when we got a target we get up and take it down with the guided missile. The reason why we use the guided is that its faster and you don't need any crew on the ground helping you out.
Spaz is absolutley right here, the reason why the attack chopper is perceived by some to be underpowered is that you need to use more realistic tactics for it. Remaining on standby in a prepared, variable location and then being called in to eliminate particulary troublesome objectives makes usre that you have eyes on the ground, the commanders approval sometimes and usually a safe approach to and from the target.

Preparing avenues of approach - to common attack locations will really help your setup and fire time too.

Just don't ask me to fly copters, i suck at it. Just ask bond, mongol, spaz, someone like that.

It's massively powerful, just like in RL you better have some air-defence near anything important. Just like infantry the lone wolf, or worse still one man tank crew, supply truck convoy or infantry squad moving fast across open terrain is just toast to airpower.
Tartantyco wrote:-I would like to point out that choppers like the Eurocopter 365, LB with miniguns and WZ-11 are extremely useless right now.
Not knowing what sort of target you are diving down on for a strafing run will usually get you nailed in a LB attack chopper. However some comms with a nearby squad will usually make you a best friend of any squad you are supporting. Most squads don't carry SAM's as std issue, and any squad without bunker resources away from their main base is usually fair game so long as your attack direction isn't predictable.
Last edited by Darkpowder on 2008-05-08 08:50, edited 1 time in total.
@bsurd
Posts: 353
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Re: Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

Post by @bsurd »

give the attack choppers a stabilze system for the gunner. Just like in the AAV. And reduce the spawn time. And it would be nice when the pilot can switch the aiming from his AA Missels on and off. So you can follow a air target without give your stealth status away. Just like in the Jets.The other thigs are all ok for me.

Its so boring on kashan wenn the half team wait for a chopper... But @ 20 min spawntime you have no other choise then wait. And even then there comes another guy and steal it like yesterday. Moha waits 15 min and then get it stolen by a guy who comes just on the plattform.

Is there a way to limit the pilot kits on the pilot seats witch are aviable? I mean if there are 2 attack choppers and 1 BH, only 5 kits are aviable. So there cant come another guy and steal it, because he cant get the right kit.

My english is bad, hope you guys know what i mean.
101 bassdrive
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Re: Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

Post by 101 bassdrive »

spaz and darkpowder are right, the attack helos are gamedeciding if used correctly and as said there are other tactics for quinling than for kashan.

last time I had the fortune to pilot, I flew skyjumpy on 10th who racked up kills like Ive never seen before. we took it all out, from the enemy havocs, tanks, transports all down to enemy RP's, didnt crash once till the round abruptly ended and I believe he went on 55kills or something.
meaning there is nothing wrong with em.

the only thing I could think of are some minor inconveniences for pilots. like:
- the speedmeter doesnt indicate if youre moving forward or backward
- helos should be nervous and twitchy, but I miss a sort of very small "delay" for this caused by mass, its very instant
- why was the HUD view disabled?
other than that I only hope they dont get nerfed :D
Mora
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Re: Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

Post by Mora »

There are only a few things i like to be changed/added;

Spawntime - 20min is just too much, 10min is good.

Gunner stabilization - Would be very useful, but not like the scimitar has it.. maybe its better if it has a little space.. that would need testing.

Sound - its just not right, when you launch a hellfire it makes a sort of wired sound. I know there was a video somewhere where the pilot or gunner has a camera in his hand and you can hear the hellfire taking off but i cant find it anymore :(
@bsurd
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Re: Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

Post by @bsurd »

Mora wrote:There are only a few things i like to be changed/added;

Spawntime - 20min is just too much, 10min is good.

Gunner stabilization - Would be very useful, but not like the scimitar has it.. maybe its better if it has a little space.. that would need testing.

Sound - its just not right, when you launch a hellfire it makes a sort of wired sound. I know there was a video somewhere where the pilot or gunner has a camera in his hand and you can hear the hellfire taking off but i cant find it anymore :(

I full agree with this.

And these things i also agree fully:

the only thing I could think of are some minor inconveniences for pilots. like:
- the speedmeter doesnt indicate if youre moving forward or backward
- helos should be nervous and twitchy, but I miss a sort of very small "delay" for this caused by mass, its very instant
- why was the HUD view disabled?
other than that I only hope they dont get nerfed

But i thinked the DEv´s liked the long Spawntimes.

Wo so often talked about this.
markonymous
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Re: Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

Post by markonymous »

Spaz wrote:When me and bond is flying on quinlin we fly low and hide behind hill, and when we got a target we get up and take it down with the guided missile. The reason why we use the guided is that its faster and you don't need any crew on the ground helping you out.

And on kashan you should just fly as high as posible, the only thing that you need to be afraid of the attack helicopter on the enemy team. Point and click (watch moras video ;) )

The attack helicopter is perfect and almost over power in the right hands, the only thing i would like to see is a stabilizator for the gunner.
thatnk you. Some ppl just dont get that different maps need different tactics. The helis right now are good although i dont like the new missile system since im not very good at it(i do the flying only :P ). What would be nice would be the pilot optics.
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Spaz
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Re: Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

Post by Spaz »

I don't think changing the spawn time to 10min is a good idea, you should be rewared for taking down the enemy helicopter knowing that you don't have to worry about it for a looooong time.
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@bsurd
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Re: Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

Post by @bsurd »

Spaz wrote:I don't think changing the spawn time to 10min is a good idea, you should be rewared for taking down the enemy helicopter knowing that you don't have to worry about it for a looooong time.
thats right, but its bad for the gameplay. And what is the Problem when it comes up 10 min earlier? you take it down 1 time, and you can take it down 1 more :-)

I especially mean kashan. So much time you wake up in main and there is NOTHING to get back in the fight.

I dont only want lower spawntimes for the attack choppers. I want them for all vehicles, jets and so on. Because its a GAME. And stand and wait for something isnt that kind of Fun i want to have in my free time.

And if all spawntimes get reduce to the half, the balance would be the same, but this boring waiting ends.
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