[Coding] Balistics/zeroing [WIP]

[Masaq]

If you get the trajectory working right you won't have to campaign to be allowed to get the damage right.

Like I've said - provide us with something, anything (even if it's just two weapons - M16 and G3) to examine as soon as possible!


Mas

[Mosquill]

Masaq;678537']If you get the trajectory working right you won't have to campaign to be allowed to get the damage right.

Like I've said - provide us with something, anything (even if it's just two weapons - M16 and G3) to examine as soon as possible!


Mas

Why do you want to examine it so bad? Anyway, testing isn't required atm. So.. sry no toys for you testers just yet

[Masaq]

Why do you want to examine it so bad? Anyway, testing isn't required atm. So.. sry no toys for you testers just yet

Because, and don't take this the wrong way, no matter how epic and amazing it sounds it's all going to be pointless if it makes the game virtually impossible to play

That's what testers are for, not for having a play with shiny new toys but to see if things work as they should

[zangoo]

what was k in 0.6 and 0.613?

[Mosquill]

Because, and don't take this the wrong way, no matter how epic and amazing it sounds it's all going to be pointless if it makes the game virtually impossible to play

It will be fine for gameplay, you don't even have to take ballistics into account at <300m unless you'r a sniper.

Masaq;678570']That's what testers are for, not for having a play with shiny new toys but to see if things work as they should

I don't belive that you're a real person if you have never enjoyed having a play with shiny new testbuilds .

[Rico11b]

It will be fine for gameplay, you don't even have to take ballistics into account at <300m unless you'r a sniper.

That is generally the correct line of thinking, with respect to assault rifles.

Aim center mass out to 300 meters are fire. The idea is to get a hit on the target. ANYWHERE on the target, not just a dang head shot. Head shots should not even be attempted unless you are very close and the target is NOT moving around. The head is a much smaller target than center mass shot. Also it is a lot easier to miss, because the head moves around more than the center of the target does.

Lets say you aim at the target's shirt pocket. You won't hit the pocket itself, but you should hit somewhere around it. Even if it hits in the shoulder or in the belly it still counts as a hit. And that is what you want. A lot of these guys need to forget about this head shot ****, cause it ain't legit. Don't believe the Hollywood movie magic you see in movies.

Aiming center mass and firing should get you a hit on the target at least 86 to 90% of the time, if you have steadied yourself and adhered to the fundamentals of marksmanship. Not 100% like it is now in game. I'm referring to assault rifles here, not Sniper weapons.

[Howitzer]

Whats to point with the tracers if they dont show where the rest of the bullets go ? Isn't this there first task ?

[Masaq]

4shared.com - online file sharing and storage - download ballistic tables BC9.xls

Modified table and graphs, improved formulas. Graphs rely on m/k and not seperate m & k now, you will just need to divide your current masses by the current value of k and then type it in.

Also need a better value of k (for non-tracer rounds), see two posts up for method (post #429).

@ DEVs/MAs:
Do you REALLY need tracers?
They are gonna be an absolute pain.
They dont go where the other rounds go at all.
I dont know if its possible to have a different mass for them, I dont know much about python. But that would fix the problem.

I'd run this past a senior (redtag) DEV too, but for my money as a player/tester yes, tracers are a must. It'd be none too realistic to have conventional armies without them, it'd be a huge gameplay change too (imagine being a chopper pilot and not being able to see ground fire coming up at your bird - you'd have no way of reporting AAA sites to your team) and it'd remove one of the chief advantages the insurgent and militia teams have; that of not having to expose their positions via tracer fire.


With regards to a solution:
Can rounds have their mass changed independently in the editor?

[Mosquill]

Well they will suck for aimed shots, but if their k is not too far out (< 5%, ie their ballistic trajectory is very close to the other bullets) then we may be able to justify keeping them in. If not, then they could well have to go. Unless of course zangoo can come up with a way to change their mass via python to give them the same trajectory as the other bullets, +/- < 2%.

The point is mainly to let everyone else know what direction the enemy are in.

You can simulate tracers with effects. Afaik, this way you can make all bullets tracers or make every random bullet a tracer. But i'm not sure if you can make every Nth bullet a tracer this way.

I think Python won't help here, and i belive drag has nothing to do with it. It looks like tracers have more gravity, not drag.

[Masaq]

Random won't really do I'd've thought - if it's truly random, you still negate the realism aspect of it as you'll start getting bizzare periods of no tracers or lots of them.

Looking at the editor I can't see what determines the characteristics of a tracer round - nor the standard ammunition projectiles, for that matter... still none too familiar with BF2Ed

[Rico11b]

Whats to point with the tracers if they dont show where the rest of the bullets go ? Isn't this there first task ?

I'm not trying to be a ding dong here, so please don't take this the wrong way

They DO show where the other bullets are going. But it is NOT precision work with marking targets. NONE of these cheaply made assault rifles were built with uber precision work in mind. ONLY SNIPERS RIFLES ARE BUILT THAT WAY!!!

Everyone needs to STOP thinking that these assault rifles can put ALL their bullets into the same bullet hole, because it's not true. Not even close. These MASS produced assault rifles are made to hit a man sized target out to their max effective range. Can some guys get hits further out than that? Sure they can, but it's not the norm. And it's not what the rifle was built for.

Yes, the level of accuracy is usuable. But their level of accuracy would be UNACCEPTABLE to you, if you had to pay for it from your own pocket.

If you fire at a targets chest and the bullets hits him in the upper leg, IT STILL COUNTS as a hit, and the military is very happy with that. The individual shooter may not be happy with that, but the government is, and since they paid for the rifle they have the last say about it.

The accuracy of any of these standard assault rifles sucks big time. Especially when compared to rifles that I can buy right off the shelf that will out shoot any of them. The m16 clones that I can buy from my local gun shop is a HELL of a lot better than these run down abused standard issue rifles.

Stop thinking that the Militaries around the world are equipping their regular infantry units with uber precision assault rifles cause it ain't true. It cost the US Military about 600 dollars to replace an M16A2. You can't even begin to purchase a rifle that cheap in the civilian sector with ACCEPTABLE accuracy. Just how much accuracy do you expect for a measly 600 bucks. Not much, cause like most things you get what you pay for.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound like a jerk here. It sorta gets under my skin when I get the impression that people start thinking these crappy assault rifles are so GOOD that they can put ALL bullets into the same hole at most any range. That hardly almost never ever happens at 25 meters much less 200 meters. That is how it is in game right now, and that is the unrealistic part that these guys are working so hard to correct.


@ Jonny

Yes the tracer bullets are a different weight than the standard round. Furthermore as the bullet is flying to the target it is getting lighter, and lighter That is because the phosphor is burning off as the round is traveling down range. But I'm guessing you guys already figured that part out. But for our purposes it won't matter all.

R

[Alex6714]

I don't know a huge amount, but I will have a look at the tracer effects, probably on friday.

[zangoo]

afaik you cannot attach a effect to a projectile and have it happen every 3 or 5 rounds, you could make it shoot every round a tracer or random like mosquill said. also just a theory here if we were to change the gravity of the whole world using physics.gravity to a real setting, then change the gravity modifier to 1, the bullets and the tracers should fall at the same speed.

also i understand how tracer rounds are diffrent then the ball round fired, but right now if you were to try and shoot something you would see the tracers go some place totaly diffrent.

also mosquill if you have done any tests of how tracers effect other guns or is the m40a3 the only gun you have tested and if you have tested other guns like the m16 would it be useable, how much extra drop is at 300m?