Israeli Army addition

Zepheris Casull · Post by **Zepheris Casull** » 2006-03-26 14:43

Pence: nope not saying MEC should be taken out, i am saying that DICE never really thought about what could happen and what is unlikely as much as "how do we get enough army so they can all kill each other".

IDF makes excellent enemy for MEC and to setup a scenario with it.

IDF's record FYI is so far :

1948 war of independence: IDF repulsed the combined attack of iraq, jordan, syria, lebanon, and egypt which was launched less than 24 hours after they declared independence.

1956 Sinai campaign: IDF pushed in and in 8 days controlled gaza and sinai peninsula.

1967 Six day war: Israel following the egypt's treaty violation and due to alarming millitary build up by the arab nations surrounding it, launched a pre emptive strike in which they neutralized Egypt's air force within a day, counter attacked the jordan, and routed the syrian force.

1973 Yom kippur war: Egypt and Syria launched a coordinated surprise assault against israel, during the next 3 weeks IDF repulsed the assault and eventually both party agreed to dissengage.

1982 Operation Peace for Galilee: PLO following their removal from jordan, redeployed in southern lebanon and after a number of skirmish and raid against israel, IDF crossed lebanon and removed the majority of PLO and their infrastructure.

Do u see now why i think they make an excellent enemy for MEC? They have fought against the possible MEC members for decades, they won most of the conflict, and right now they are undisputed in terms of millitary ability in the region. MEC overrunning them is very unlikely since they have already fought such assault and repulsed them in the past. And obviously the existence of MEC will promote increased millitary build up in IDF. Also note that IDF wields one of the largest number of millitary hardware behind the US.

Airborne Units: 1,230
Armor: 14,200
Artillery: 2,783
Missile Defense Systems: 3,153
Infantry Support Weapons: 7,520

FYI, that exceeds britain's armed force by almost a factor of 3 and their active manpower is practically double, with more than 3 times as much for reserve.

MEC overrunning them? not a chance... try again.

Pence · Post by **Pence** » 2006-03-26 15:02

Zepheris Casull wrote: Do u see now why i think they make an excellent enemy for MEC?

No, you base it all on past conflicts.

Let me spell it out: THE MEC (Middle Eastern Coalition) IS PROFETIONAL, WELL ARMED AND GREATLY OUTNUMBERS ISREAL!!

Two exsamples, tank vs tank; T-90 vs Merkava = Balenced.
Helicopter vs tank; Havok vs Merkava = Havok wins. Apache vs T-90 = Apache wins.

You see, now add numbers; The MEC outnumber Isreal at least 50-150 to 1, its kind of unfair to say the MEC would be beatern by Isreal.

Anyway i have givern up from now on. Unless you show me some evidence that the MEC could be stoped by pethetic Isreal then i will continue to disregard anythink you say.

Zepheris Casull · Post by **Zepheris Casull** » 2006-03-26 15:25

the facts u've forgotten:
a. if MEC ever comes into play they will not have the hardware they currently posses in BF2. b. their presence will result in direct increase of IDF as they follow the progress, since IDF are very wary of their enemies condition. c. MEC don't exist at the moment, and getting the current army of the arab nations into the state portrayed in MEC in less than say 5 years will take a miracle, if that happens it would be like vietnam turning into a super power nation. d. IDF DO exist and they DO wield second largest number of military hardware behind US.

FYI that number of their millitary hardware was 3 years ago, considering that they acquired a few more shipment of US hardware during the time and with the introduction of the new batch of Merkava 4, that number is going up.

the reason why i showed their past history conflict is simple, they have experience and are highly capable from the previous conflict lessons, the arab nations that have fought them which are the likely MEC members have shown poor performance in the past up until the latest conflict against israel, hence if MEC starts forming now, and IDF keep tab on it, it is obvious that the IDF will remain at an advantage simply because if they both grow at equal rate, then IDF will retain their massive advantage they started with.

btw, MEC outnumbering israel?? 2 of the MEC member nations putting their entire army together still can't match IDF numbers, the air force in particular. Then note that the current stock of the hardware of these nations are outdated. Forming MEC means buying the hardware from scratch, and getting the number necessary to outnumber IDF in modern hardware in less than a decade will kill the economy of the region's nations put together.

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2006-03-26 18:23

There is also this: A 'MEC' would certainly not be attacking with 100% brand new equipment. They would attack with everything from 50 year old soviet tanks to maybe a division of new t90s and t72s. The MEC countries are poor, no one seems to understand this. They are also much worse trained than Israel, or any other military in the world pretty much.

Now thats just balanced talk for a realistic game.

If a real MEC were ever even hinted at being formed, Israel would launch massive air campaigns and neutralize the militaries of all those involved before they knew what hit them.

six7 · Post by **six7** » 2006-03-26 19:04

^^ unless China stepped in and backed the mEC in their military endeavors by vowing to defend the MEC from the Isralie air force. gives a reason to the alliance between MEC and China and Allows MEC to form safly.

Even after the mEC formed, Israel would still be able to hold their own. the Merkevah 4 is equal in preformance to the Lepord,Abrams and Challenger. the T 90 is at a disadvantage because of its slow automatic loading system. The Merkevah tank crews ae also seasoned tankers and much more well trained that any middle eastern country's.

I think that Israel would be nice to add, but i would rather see Russia (either as an ally or enemy) for some snow levels first. i would also rather see another enemy added rather than another ally.

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-03-26 20:49

Pence, I really don't see how it is possible for you to ignore every logical point put out that says the MEC wouldn't just destroy the IDF. Numbers aren't everything, hell even if they had the ability to match the IDF in equipment they wouldn't have the experiance or tactics of the IDF.

Now, ignoring DICE's interpretation of what the MEC would be, they would most likely have some modern equipment(still not on par with the IDF) but only for their elites. Their grunts would likely use AK-47's because of how cheep and effective they are, and their training would be at the level national guard member here at best. Yes, the MEC has oil to sell to get money, but I don't think you realize how much money it costs to raise an army, train it, feed it, deploy it, and fight with it.

Crazydutchfella · Post by **Crazydutchfella** » 2006-03-27 21:15

Well right now I can`t see MEC forming at all let alone getting their hands on that miltary hardware.
As we all know the Islam has different followers (two major parts, one group followed mohammeds son as a phrophet the other didn`t, I think) Now these two groups don`t like each other and kind of kill each other, how can the MEC be formed if they won`t even stop killing each other?

As for the Israelli army holding it`s own against the MEC forces? yes I think it will hold them of for a while but eventually the numbers of MEC will win the fight, too bad for MEC that the US will respond to it and if they do well gues who sudenly has numbers on their side.

o and guys whe all know whe wan`t the Dutch army to be added

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2006-03-27 21:48

Israel: WTF! Iran has nukes! Screw the UN Sanctions, we're taking out the nukes!

*bombs nuclear plants*

Iran: WTF! Israel bombed us! They have declared war on us, on all of Islam! Allahu Ackbar! Lets kill Israel!

Other Arabic countries with extremist populations: We hate Israel too! Lets kill them!

*Start numerous extremist coups, and extremist movemtns pressuring extistant leaders*

Crazy Islamic countries: BooYah! We are the MEC! Death to Israel.

That is a very simplified version of how a MEC forms.

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-03-28 00:26

Those would be their exact words to.

six7 · Post by **six7** » 2006-03-28 00:34

Figisaacnewton wrote:Israel: WTF! Iran has nukes! Screw the UN Sanctions, we're taking out the nukes!

*bombs nuclear plants*

Iran: WTF! Israel bombed us! They have declared war on us, on all of Islam! Allahu Ackbar! Lets kill Israel!

Other Arabic countries with extremist populations: We hate Israel too! Lets kill them!

*Start numerous extremist coups, and extremist movemtns pressuring extistant leaders*

Crazy Islamic countries: BooYah! We are the MEC! Death to Israel.

That is a very simplified version of how a MEC forms.

ROFL

TII · Post by **TII** » 2006-03-28 00:42

Followed by the IAF bombing them back into the stoneage.

Even if the MEC did form they would have 3rd rate equipment and training. And why would China be supporting them and how would they get there?

six7 · Post by **six7** » 2006-03-28 00:51

Even if the MEC did form they would have 3rd rate equipment and training. And why would China be supporting them and how would they get there?

to protect hteir oil intrest in the area, maybe?

[T]Terranova7 · Post by **[T]Terranova7** » 2006-03-28 02:28

I have an interesting suggestion on the MEC. Perhaps the MEC aren't the normal arabic extremist countries we've branded them with. Perhaps countries such as Saudi Arabia, Oman, Pakistan and other countries that are more western influenced and politically controlled.

Taking some ideas from a previous thread, "Story of PR". Perhaps western influenced mid-east nations admire what Europe is doing with its European Union, and decides to unite and form an international group that would share the same currency, armies and resources. However, countries such as Israel refuse to join, as they only wish to maintain their independence. However, arabic extremist hate this new form of government, and ouit of their religon cause massive havoc throughout the middle-east.

The United States, so focused on the war with China, can no longer supply their middle-east friends with equipemnt. However, Russia and several other nations were more that willing to export their military technology to the MEC. Bam, in matter of a few short years, the MEC trained and funded their new joint army of the middle-east, and soon launched a military campaign to restore order from abundant terrorist groups, corrupted nations and to unite the middle-east into one nation.

The nations attacked also include Israel, which was key to the MEC due to its location being against the Mediterranian Sea. The MEC's expansionist aims, attacks on innocents countries and military buildup was enough to fuel a war with western nations such as the U.K and U.S.

Its something I made up off the back of my head. What do you guys think?

TII · Post by **TII** » 2006-03-28 03:28

six7 wrote:to protect hteir oil intrest in the area, maybe?

Still, how would they get there? Afghanistan and Pakistan are in the way. If we're fighting China it's probably a good bet that it would be in Korea, Japan and Taiwan.

Second, any aggressive arms buildup/mobilization by Pakistan would be suicide since they are sandwiched in between Afghanistan and India, and I know India doesn't need much provoking with their disputes over Kashmir.

I also doubt any of the supposed MEC countries have enough money to buy serious front line equipment for their troops much less train the soldiers to a decent degree, not to mention the stuff Russia exports is seriously stripped down. Most of the MEC countries can't even get along with themselves either, like someone else mentioned, the Shiites and Sunnis seem more than happy to fight each other in Iraq.

But I reckon it's gotta be some story, cause realistically all of these countries except for China would be steamrolled by the US or Israel in Real Life®.

Pence · Post by **Pence** » 2006-03-28 22:35

Zepheris Casull wrote:the facts u've forgotten:
a. if MEC ever comes into play they will not have the hardware they currently posses in BF2.

So how come they have it then? Remember that they HAVE this hardware, they ARE profetional and they ARE a giant coalition of Arab states.

b. their presence will result in direct increase of IDF as they follow the progress, since IDF are very wary of their enemies condition.

You are suggesting that hundreds of thousands of Isreali's spawn from noware?
The MEC have almost unlimited manpower, Isreal does not.

c. MEC don't exist at the moment, and getting the current army of the arab nations into the state portrayed in MEC in less than say 5 years will take a miracle, if that happens it would be like vietnam turning into a super power nation.

Yet it has happened... The MEC do exsist in-game, or you want China to be the only 'enemy' state?

d. IDF DO exist and they DO wield second largest number of military hardware behind US.

Again this is kind of stupid seeing as thogh the MEC are at least 3, 4, 5 or even 6+ times larger than Isreal.

the reason why i showed their past history conflict is simple, they have experience and are highly capable from the previous conflict lessons, the arab nations that have fought them which are the likely MEC members have shown poor performance in the past up until the latest conflict against israel, hence if MEC starts forming now, and IDF keep tab on it, it is obvious that the IDF will remain at an advantage simply because if they both grow at equal rate, then IDF will retain their massive advantage they started with.

Your saying that Isreal must have made a law to boost its population to the numbers of the MEC?

btw, MEC outnumbering israel?? 2 of the MEC member nations putting their entire army together still can't match IDF numbers, the air force in particular. Then note that the current stock of the hardware of these nations are outdated.

The MEC outnumber Isreal because; if you put all of the Islamic states together you will have more manpower than Isreal by far.

Somalia, Egypt, S.Arabia, Afganistan, Syria, Pakistan, Lybia, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Iraq, Iran, Sudan, Turkmenistan, Turkey and Yemen - To name some, You think Isreal has a population that out-strips thies united countrys?

Forming MEC means buying the hardware from scratch, and getting the number necessary to outnumber IDF in modern hardware in less than a decade will kill the economy of the region's nations put together.

Again, based on in-game information you are wrong.

TII · Post by **TII** » 2006-03-28 23:37

None of the ME countries I know of field T-8/90 MBTs, more like old piece of junk export T-72s and the like. Same with aircraft, the best they can put up are some MiG-29As and a few countries like Pakistan, Oman, UAE, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan and Bahrain fly various block F-16s and are more pro-western so are unlikely to goto war against the very people who supply their equipment. Half the countries you name don't even have a capable army at all, more like a bunch of insurgent fighters.

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-03-28 23:46

Pence, is there any point to even arguing with you? I really don't see how you can be so obtuse. I guess you are completely unwilling to take into acount the real world because the one that DICE created is much more realistic.

I'll say it once again, DICE didn't care to make a realistic game. They just decided that our current enemies are in the middle east and China and then they threw non western weapons every which way to make their armies. Yes, in BF2 the MEC have equipment that is advanced, and yes in BF2 they are a completely professinional army, but in the real world which wasn't made by DICE the MEC couldn't exist the way it does in BF2.

[T]Terranova7 · Post by **[T]Terranova7** » 2006-03-29 02:20

Its professional, not profestional or whatever else you spell it. Also, a fact that not many people may know about. The "true" middle-east extends beyond just Egypt and Iran, it goes right across northern Africa to include Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, etc. As well as Pakistan and India. May I remind you that India does have quite an arsenal of T-90 tank as well. A good picture of this from wiki below.

Other than that I like the idea of having the more "intelligent" leaders of the middle-east make an agreement for an alliance. The head of the MEC could a be a council of sorts, with each monarch representing each nation individually. Perhaps this was a result of the current Iraq War. The MEC is formed to unite the middle-east into a single nation. By using their best resource, oil; they systematically trained, equiped and created a combined army.

Note: Here I'm only supporting the MEC as to their creation and attitude. I think that perhaps PR should look away from the violent and somewhat "primative" society of arabics being the leaders of the MEC. In relevance to the suggestion I still think Israel is strong enough to hold down their own territory. Especially if the west was to immediatly come to Israel's aid.

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-03-29 02:25

Err, I didn't meen they weren't completely non-professional(lol I have no idea what was with my spelling). What I meant was they were on par with any western force. They would have lots of soldiers with decent equipment and vehicles, but nothing as advanced as Israel's, the U.S.'s, Britain's, or even Russia's technology(for the most part). I think maybe they could have some advanced vehicles and weapons, but only for their elite soldiers. Oman has some Challenger 2's right? Maybe if the Challenger 2 is made we could throw one into an MEC map along with a t-72 or two.

wushu1 · Post by **wushu1** » 2006-03-29 02:55

how did china get into this conversation, and why do they always have side with the middle east, and whu did Dice make the US go to war with china in the first place

why does everyone hate china