Coalition kills Collaborator = Instant death

[Ablack77]

I suggest giving a much stiffer penalty to players who kill collaborators.

The current system of punishment for the coalition who kill collaborators is simply not enough of a deterrent for
(I would say) 99.9% of players.

Players don't give a **** about killing a collaborator and most of the information I'm hearing is
"hey if they're going to throw rocks at me they're going to die"

Since the inception of the long spawn times for collaborators on any given round you'll be lucky if one player out of 32 decides that the kit is worth it.



Since 0.8 has arrived I've chosen the collaborator class approximately 20 times and out of those 20 times I estimate I've been shot 16-17 times (indicating the lack of regard in choosing targets),
twice I've fallen off something ie a building
(which results in a "suicide" punishment for me ie 5 minute spawn time)
and I can only recall being handcuffed/knifed 3 times total.

All in all, every time I've chosen to go collaborator I've ended up totally frustrated and either quit out of the round or sworn to never choose the collaborator class EVER again,
which is where I stand now.


And since I get punished with long spawn times when a coalition soldier couldn't give a toss about how the game is meant to be played.........
I simply refuse to choose the civi kit ever again.
If my squad leader asks me to choose the collaborator kit on my next respawn my answer is NO!

I don't get any enjoyment out of staring at a black screen for long periods of time
and if the enemy team isn't willing to play ball then neither am I.

Which is why I suggest forcing players to play ball.

I have a strong feeling that if players are penalised with death for shooting a collaborator that they will very quickly learn to abide by the ROE (rules of engagement) and designed gameplay and start to actually try to identify their targets instead of having a shoot first ask questions later attitude.

You could actually use the excuse and have a message show up on screen while your waiting to respawn
"you have been brought in for questioning after your acts of aggression on civilians"


This "instant death" idea could also possibly be carried over to team killing
"you have been brought in for questioning after a friendly fire incident"


I think it was RO (Red Orchestra) which I used to play a long time ago which had death as a penalty for killing team mates,
which seems like a great idea to me don't you think?
Think of the tards and griefers that join servers just to team kill, our Oz servers have their fair share of them,
wouldn't instant death make their job harder.

Would stop people from going on rampages killing teammates left, right and center and at the same time force all players to choose their targets properly.

But team killing = insta death is not what this thread is about, hey it's an idea, take it or leave it.




I don't think I can explain it any better or suggest any more than I have why I think it should be implemented,
all I ask is that you (the developers) consider this idea as a valid one.

I expect that all the people who don't care about shooting collaborators and who don't care about the dev's attempt to make another side of gameplay by including the collaborators in PR will hate this idea and you will probably voice your opinions here.

And since it's been made aware to us that the dev's aren't really fussed if we like something or not and they make the mod according to how they see fit
I'm more interested in the dev's opinion of this suggestion and hopefully an R-DEV or two can give me some feedback.

Peace out

[DannyIMK]

insurgent/civi spawn time should be decreased

[WallyJas]

I think Blacky has an awesome suggestion ..... I'll second it

As long as the instant death is also accompanied by the 60 sec + respawn time.

[Mediace]

yeah i agree. killing a civi you should get you a bigger punishment than the civi gets from getting killed. lighten up the spawn time for being killed as a civi as well as slaying the coalition soldier that killed him would make that class used a hell of a lot more. even 60 second spawn time after being killed. the only down side i can see is the fully accidental civi kills from tanks/strykers etc having to return to base to crew up again

but the instant death for all TKs won't be that good, just think of all the fully accidental TKs or the forced TK were friendlies running under your tires on purpose. or The helicopter pilot dropping off a squad accidentally squishes one on the way out.

[RedAlertSF]

Good idea, but also the collaborator spawn time is ridiculous. It should be like 40sek and other insurgents' spawn times should be like 25sek.

[Rudd]

the old 3 civi kills = death is good with me

[Wicca]

I think instant death for TK, and Collaborator kill is a good idea.

It slows down the gameplay, people get more carefull. Which makes me happy.

So i second this idea. And i give it a +

Hurra!

[Smuke]

The death after TK is stupid, if your flying a chopper and someone gets tked under the chopper or jumps out and dies, you die, which leaves the chopper to fall and kill everyone in it.

[Solid Knight]

This suggestion would ruin gameplay in so many scenarios it should be defenestrated.

[ConSs]

I think the death penalty + longer spawntime for civie kill should be implemented. I just simply can't see the logic behind the current system: if a coalition soldier kills a civilian, he gets a 60sec spawn if he only kills the one civie, but the killed civilian gets what, atleast 90sec spawntime? That only encourages the coalition forces to kill civies, because they can enjoy giving the civie longer spawntime than they get for killing him. That just doesn't make any sense.

As for what comes to the TK death penalty, I strongly disagree. Most of the TKs are accidents and therefore should not be punished by death.

[DannyIMK]

it should work only for infantry, if crewman/pilot kill civi/tk he would get warning, after 3 kills with aircraft/vehicle he will die but he will have a minute or two to land or go to safe place

[[uBp]Irish]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with the suggestion of this thread.

a) Most "Civilians" (Collaborators) are spotters for the enemy. If you're helping the enemy kill coalition troops on Basra, Ramiel, Archer etc, than you yourself have voided all rights thus previously given to you under the title "Civilian". By helping kill troops, even if you dont have a gun, you're a combatant. You then will be shot in my book.

b) Until I have a civilian come up to me and actually lead me to a Cache (.5/.6/.7 Basrah comes to mind sometimes), than you're going to be shot at to stay the hell away, because I dont know what gun toting fanatic you could have behind you.

Now... this present a problem because whereas you want me to be screwed for protecting my soldiers, I want you to never want to be near combat. Ever. Or in that case, you say something in chat that identifies that you're actually going to help us rather than screw us over (which actually happens with civilians helping coalition forces)

[Ablack77]

Irish;895651']I'm going to respectfully disagree with the suggestion of this thread.

a) Most "Civilians" (Collaborators) are spotters for the enemy. If you're helping the enemy kill coalition troops on Basra, Ramiel, Archer etc, than you yourself have voided all rights thus previously given to you under the title "Civilian". By helping kill troops, even if you dont have a gun, you're a combatant. You then will be shot in my book.

b) Until I have a civilian come up to me and actually lead me to a Cache (.5/.6/.7 Basrah comes to mind sometimes), than you're going to be shot at to stay the hell away, because I dont know what gun toting fanatic you could have behind you.

Now... this present a problem because whereas you want me to be screwed for protecting my soldiers, I want you to never want to be near combat. Ever. Or in that case, you say something in chat that identifies that you're actually going to help us rather than screw us over (which actually happens with civilians helping coalition forces)

Not having a go at you Irish but I will use your post as an example,

This is exactly the attitude I was talking about and it's not a rare attitude it's a common one.

In fact put a collaborator throwing rocks in front of most anyone and this is the reaction you will most likely get.

This just reinforces what I was saying about people who are not willing to "play ball"
and that the penalties are not stiff enough.

You could take away a 1000 points from the coalition side and make the round finish and the insurgents win,
but people will still shoot collaborators.
But insta-death them and I bet you they will comply with the designed gameplay.

Thanks for helping me prove my point Irish.

[White Rock]

Irish;895651']I'm going to respectfully disagree with the suggestion of this thread.

a) Most "Civilians" (Collaborators) are spotters for the enemy. If you're helping the enemy kill coalition troops on Basra, Ramiel, Archer etc, than you yourself have voided all rights thus previously given to you under the title "Civilian". By helping kill troops, even if you dont have a gun, you're a combatant. You then will be shot in my book.

b) Until I have a civilian come up to me and actually lead me to a Cache (.5/.6/.7 Basrah comes to mind sometimes), than you're going to be shot at to stay the hell away, because I don't know what gun toting fanatic you could have behind you.

Now... this present a problem because whereas you want me to be screwed for protecting my soldiers, I want you to never want to be near combat. Ever. Or in that case, you say something in chat that identifies that you're actually going to help us rather than screw us over (which actually happens with civilians helping coalition forces)

We'll ofcourse from a realistic perspective the collaborators should be shot but they are there to simulate that the war going on is actually in a civilian area and that coalition forces just can't level buildings to the ground rather then search them for caches. Just like spawn points are a simulation of more soldiers rather then that every soldier has 6 1-ups in real life.

What are you actually suggesting to fix the collaborator?

In fact put a collaborator throwing rocks in front of most anyone and this is the reaction you will most likely get.

Rocks are getting removed next version, collaborator will be pure spotter/healer/repairman and so on.

[cyberzomby]

One thing that bothers me the most is the long collab spawn time. Why in earth does it have a longer spawn time than the rest? Just a normal question guys I really dont know

[Spec]

3 civkills -> death or 2 civkills -> death would be good. Thought we had that already, though. Did that get removed for 0.8? Didnt play for a while, cant remember.

[Vege]

Well, instead of killing em take their weapons away untill they find a new one or untill they die.
If you kill an unarmed sivilian i think the first thing army does is taking your weapons away (and i would love to see emptyhanded US soldiers ). This would not hinder the vehicles beening used but would still give them "normal" negative scores.

[McBumLuv]

Actually, I like some parts of the suggestion, but it's all too easy to accidentaly TK at >100 meters. I've done it, my friends have all done it, and I think everyone's done it once at least.

The people you want to stop are griefers and such, who operate in very close proximity (obviously not accidents). Same with shooting civies upclose, especially if they get their green tunic and red shoes back.

Therefore, I would suggest that a TK/civi killed under 50 meters is an insta-death. At that point there should be no excuse, except for when in vehicles, where I would say 2 tks under 50 meters is an insta-death. Why? because it's easy for lone smacktards to get in the way of your chopper/jet without you knowing, or because friendlies are getting out of a chopper and you hit one going up because you're getting shot at.

After 50 meters, I'd say 2 teamkils and/or civi kills and you get insta-death, once again except when in vehicles, where it'll be 3 tks/civi kills then insta-death, if only because if you're flying a chopper/jet you don't want to have the asset be destroyed because of misinformation and you fire on friendlies.

So, to recap, it would work almost as a points system where:

• 1 tk/civi kill as infantry under 50 meters results in immdeiate death for "questionning".
• 2 tks and/ro civi kills (they'll both count towards the arresting) result in insta-kill over 50 meters as infantry.
• 2 tks and/or civi kills under 50 meters in a vheicle results in insta-death.
• 3 tks and/or civi kills in a vehicle results in insta-death.

This, along with all the other punishments for tks/civi kills (points reduction, etc...), will deter potential griefers, make players more aware as civis, as well as allow exceptions. What do you think?

[trip_uk]

I agree.