PRMM 0.3 Feedback Thread - Initial Impressions?

Armand61685 · Post by **Armand61685** » 2006-05-15 09:06

malfunkt wrote:PRMM Feedback Impressions - From the Standpoint of a Casual Gamer Who Prefers Tactical Shooters and Realism

Hi there, first off PRMM is so far a great effort. I've always wished after playing BF2 that it had a realism factor.

I was very excited to play PRMM, and gave it a good shot. The playing experience, unfortunately, left me with a bittersweet taste.

I think PRMM misses the mark by a long shot. Sorry devs (I know you'll get there though). Perhaps this release is far from the actual vision, but this is still an Arcade experience through-and-through. Mind you, very few games, actual come close to simulate combat, but there are too many game conventions to allow PRMM to give it a realism experience.

I'm sure some of these have been mentioned but here goes:

Medic - just get rid of them. They don't belong in the middle of a firefight unless they are applying morphine, a bandage or a carrying a stretcher (hey, new point ideas! jk). Magically healing abilities and GOD powers absolutely ruin the experience. This alone is a show stopper.

Lethality - It needs to be a bit more lethal. Sawing into someones leg with a spew of bullets from a SAW will not keep them running.

Speed - you can switch weapons, pull to iron sight and have instant aim... this game is still too fast. It needs to slow it down on many aspects, from switching guns, to getting in/out of a tank, to going prone. Things take time...

Spawns - get rid of team spawns altogether. It is unfair tactical and strategic advantage to teleport troops in. Squads should be for tactical communication and perhaps limited weapon assignment only. If possible it would be great to have multiple spawn points for each key area. They would be spread out and form a "front" ... All of these areas would be need to be taken to 'cap' a key area.

Weapon Assignment - I realize that there are limitations, but if there were a way to limit the amount of weapons to a squad... not everyone carries a machinegun around.

3-Shot bursts - what happened to the M16??? 2-3-round burst mode actually fires of rounds in very quick succession with less recoil than in the mod and at a much higher rate.

Movement - speed issues (as aforementioned), and it is too bad one can't peak around corners or lean... limitation of the engine perhaps?

HUD - I know this will get flak, but git rid of 'friendlies' identifiers completely. There is no magic eye on the battlefield to see where everyone is nor who you are shooting at.

Tanks - Gunner / Driver. Instead of having the second location being the top mounted MG. There should be a separate location for the gunner and a separate location for the driver. Optional 3rd area for top MG gunner/loader. If possible, have switchable munitition types from AP, HEAT, HE, SABOT, etc...

As it is I am interested to try the mod again, but not in its current form.

From a marketing perspective, give some serious thought to who this is supposed to appeal to. If you are going for Realism, then you want to appeal to the serious/casual tactical gamers who might also play Red Orchestra :O stfront 41-45, Ghost Recon, Operation Flashpoint, and America's Army.... among others. Right now, its in-between a tactical shooter and an arcade experience, and it just doesn't feel right, the balance isn't there.

However, the new maps look great, and I think with the right gameplay tweaks you'll see people playing who will actually work as a team instead of getting frustrated and C4ing all the choppers.

Good effort so far!

Great post. Almost everything on the nose, except for the fact that switcable tank rounds are already in the mod.

Lugubrum · Post by **Lugubrum** » 2006-05-15 12:17

malfunkt wrote:PRMM Feedback Impressions - From the Standpoint of a Casual Gamer Who Prefers Tactical Shooters and Realism

Hi there, first off PRMM is so far a great effort. I've always wished after playing BF2 that it had a realism factor.

I was very excited to play PRMM, and gave it a good shot. The playing experience, unfortunately, left me with a bittersweet taste.

I think PRMM misses the mark by a long shot. Sorry devs (I know you'll get there though). Perhaps this release is far from the actual vision, but this is still an Arcade experience through-and-through. Mind you, very few games, actual come close to simulate combat, but there are too many game conventions to allow PRMM to give it a realism experience.

I'm sure some of these have been mentioned but here goes:

Medic - just get rid of them. They don't belong in the middle of a firefight unless they are applying morphine, a bandage or a carrying a stretcher (hey, new point ideas! jk). Magically healing abilities and GOD powers absolutely ruin the experience. This alone is a show stopper.

Lethality - It needs to be a bit more lethal. Sawing into someones leg with a spew of bullets from a SAW will not keep them running.

Speed - you can switch weapons, pull to iron sight and have instant aim... this game is still too fast. It needs to slow it down on many aspects, from switching guns, to getting in/out of a tank, to going prone. Things take time...

Spawns - get rid of team spawns altogether. It is unfair tactical and strategic advantage to teleport troops in. Squads should be for tactical communication and perhaps limited weapon assignment only. If possible it would be great to have multiple spawn points for each key area. They would be spread out and form a "front" ... All of these areas would be need to be taken to 'cap' a key area.

Weapon Assignment - I realize that there are limitations, but if there were a way to limit the amount of weapons to a squad... not everyone carries a machinegun around.

3-Shot bursts - what happened to the M16??? 2-3-round burst mode actually fires of rounds in very quick succession with less recoil than in the mod and at a much higher rate.

Movement - speed issues (as aforementioned), and it is too bad one can't peak around corners or lean... limitation of the engine perhaps?

HUD - I know this will get flak, but git rid of 'friendlies' identifiers completely. There is no magic eye on the battlefield to see where everyone is nor who you are shooting at.

Tanks - Gunner / Driver. Instead of having the second location being the top mounted MG. There should be a separate location for the gunner and a separate location for the driver. Optional 3rd area for top MG gunner/loader. If possible, have switchable munitition types from AP, HEAT, HE, SABOT, etc...

As it is I am interested to try the mod again, but not in its current form.

From a marketing perspective, give some serious thought to who this is supposed to appeal to. If you are going for Realism, then you want to appeal to the serious/casual tactical gamers who might also play Red Orchestra :O stfront 41-45, Ghost Recon, Operation Flashpoint, and America's Army.... among others. Right now, its in-between a tactical shooter and an arcade experience, and it just doesn't feel right, the balance isn't there.

However, the new maps look great, and I think with the right gameplay tweaks you'll see people playing who will actually work as a team instead of getting frustrated and C4ing all the choppers.

Good effort so far!

I wish PRMM had this kind of realism!

Dirty Beets-TPF- · Post by **Dirty Beets-TPF-** » 2006-05-15 12:48

malfunkt wrote: Stuff

I agree with most of what you said, but putting alot of those changes in the mod would put it in a pretty small niche area. It might be too real, and a mod is not much fun if there are no populated servers.

Anyway, I just want to say this mod has resurected BF2 for me and looking at the changes from .25 to .3 I think you guys are heading in the right direction.

One complaint: The Spec-Ops does not carry enough C4 to blow up a bridge. Last night I spend a good 5min sneaking up to a bridge to take it out only to find out I couldn't.

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-05-15 13:39

Dirty Beets-TPF- wrote:One complaint: The Spec-Ops does not carry enough C4 to blow up a bridge. Last night I spend a good 5min sneaking up to a bridge to take it out only to find out I couldn't.

im sorry but they do. If you put all 3 timed C4s (SLAMS) on 1 of the bridge sections, it will blow the bridge. Try putting them all in the same place.

.:iGi:. Greg · Post by **.:iGi:. Greg** » 2006-05-15 13:43

My thoughts:

Good Points
New Sniper Rifle
New Maps
New Modes - Extraction rules, if the team know if is actually extraction!
New scoring - BLIMEY!

Bad Points
C4 - Really don't like what it has been turned into. The C4 special ops get is so weak and to have to wait till it detonates makes it pretty pointless. Even the engineers super C4 still is pretty ineffective. As far as realism goes, can't C4 be detonated remotely at an instant. Would like this to be returned to how it was. Does the C4 still go off if you die before it blows up?

New Modes - Don't get me wrong, I love all the new modes, it's just the people that play them. They have no idea what they are doing. It really needs huge letters before each round saying what the mode is and what people should be doing.

ABR doesn't seem to work properly anymore, don't know if thats you or them!

Steel Thunder still seems very buggy, still get that funny warping occassionally.

But the Good points far, far, far, far outway the bad. Damn fine mod you have created here. Thank you.

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-05-15 13:47

the SLAMS (timed C4) are ment to be weak and are ment for destorying things like arty cannons ect.

New modes will be delt with in the next version to make ppl more aware of what game mode is being played.

probaly a problem with ABR. But the next version of BF2 will probaly stop ABR from working so i wouldnt get to worked up about it.

Steel thunder seems buggy? in what way? do you means it still lags on a full 64man server?

.:iGi:. Greg · Post by **.:iGi:. Greg** » 2006-05-15 14:25

Cheers for the reply. As for Steel Thunder, it is still laggy and this is not on full servers either.

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-05-15 14:30

.:iGi:. Greg wrote:Cheers for the reply. As for Steel Thunder, it is still laggy and this is not on full servers either.

It must be your servers CPU overloaded.

we can get upto 40 people in our server on stell with no lag. when you get above that you get a little noticbal lag but it is still just playabal. Can still aim the tank ect, just about 1/2 a sec delay that gets anoying. But yes for the next version im going to look about doing some serioce optmization with any luck.

Snailstick · Post by **Snailstick** » 2006-05-15 16:52

Thanks for a great mod.
Here's what i think of the new patch:

Good stuff:
*New game modes are nice, even if they dont always work on pubs (extraction finishes pretty early on some maps, and takes forever iof you blow the bridge at karkand)
*New scoring system is nice, even though i couldnt care less about the stats, its not why i play this game.
*New maps kick ***. Jungle maps are nice, would like to see some more woodland maps too.
*The changes in weaponry and other eq. is nice.
*I like the changes to the commander. It's nice. Bad side is that the spot is often vacant.

Neutral stuff:
*Squad jumping. I understand why you removed it, however i feel that it has had a negative impact on teamplay.

Bad stuff:
*AT-class. weaponry is ****, you cant find an AT-guy on the entire server. I know you want realism but playing as AT means that you cant fight anyone, not even tanks as the AT weapon is weak. Oh and it would be nice to see the RPG in this game and the AT-4.
*Sounds. I like the music and all. however the ak-101 has a lame sound and the ak-47 sounds like a bb-gun compared to the badass m-16 sound.
*SNIPERS. Limit the class or nerf the class. If you ask me you might as well remove as i think it has nothing to do in a game based on teamplay. Right now you will have an army of snipers on every rooftop. I'm all for realism but make it req. more skill to kill someone, i hate Counter-Strike and i hate the AWP.
*Where are the flares on the nightmaps? Only using nightvision isnt all that realistic is it?

Garack · Post by **Garack** » 2006-05-15 17:12

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']Good post, but I think you are playing the wrong game heh. BF2 won't lend itself to many of the things you want and would be a lousy engine to try and achieve that level of realism.

The next generation of the OpFp stuff might allow for a nice combined arms mod platform.

We're just trying to take BF2 more into the realm of realism and teamplay, but not be a simulator.. it's the wrong engine for a simulator platform.. so I don't think PR will ever appeal to your tastes although I can understand and respect where you are coming from.

egg

I am not a coder, but is is not possible :

To set a Damage value higher for SMG ?

Eliminate the "spottet" radar that display the red Soldier for a short time?

Eliminate one green spawn point ?

Change medic Class ?

Perhaps leaning on side is engine depending, but wich other stuff he mentioned? Please explaine this, cause i am very noobish in this ..

Btw..I like this gameplay + medics + spawns and i am looking for ArmA too..Change it or not, this Mod is GREAT!!

TweedleDee · Post by **TweedleDee** » 2006-05-15 17:31

'[R-DEV wrote:Rhino']It must be your servers CPU overloaded.

we can get upto 40 people in our server on stell with no lag. when you get above that you get a little noticbal lag but it is still just playabal. Can still aim the tank ect, just about 1/2 a sec delay that gets anoying. But yes for the next version im going to look about doing some serioce optmization with any luck.

steel thunder is a good looking map, but that is all it is....

it has lagged on every server i have been on, wether its 5 people or 64. generally when the server switches to steel thunder i leave and look for another server.....

but.... the 16 player (smaller version of steel thunder is fine with no lagg) and even when there are 64 players on the 16 player map version, it seems to be big enough to accomadate that many players with little or minimal lagg....

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-05-15 17:34

TweedleDee wrote:steel thunder is a good looking map, but that is all it is....

it has lagged on every server i have been on, wether its 5 people or 64. generally when the server switches to steel thunder i leave and look for another server.....

but.... the 16 player (smaller version of steel thunder is fine with no lagg) and even when there are 64 players on the 16 player map version, it seems to be big enough to accomadate that many players with little or minimal lagg....

must be your end. I hardly ever get lag on a 32man server of steel. its a brillant map and i take my hat off to the guy who made it

Post by **Wraith** » 2006-05-15 17:43

AT-class. weaponry is ****

This is one 1337 kit right now. I can go #1 in the server with just this kit. I have to say that it takes some getting used to but if any one does get close to me I got my buddy Gran to cap them with the SAW....

SNIPERS. Limit the class or nerf the class

I have heard the call of Nerf before and it has ruined many games, Joint ops, BF:V and SWG... Leave it alone now that it is fixed. Lets look more into Limiting how many can go sniper. That was the better of the two ideas.

Where are the flares on the nightmaps

?
I agree, I think it would be great to add M203 launched Flares like in AA. I wonder if we could impliment it the same way that the shotgun was done so that you could switch ammo types.

Zaitzev-A- · Post by **Zaitzev-A-** » 2006-05-15 18:30

Is it possible to get kill-messages on the screen as a server option? Our bunch are playing for fun and seeing who you kill/get killed by would be great. I know this probably goes against some players feel for realism, but as a server option we can play both ways.

Siberian · Post by **Siberian** » 2006-05-15 18:48

These are the things that annoy me with this release:

1) Reload time for nades...? I know the reason was to avoid nade spamming, but I never really considered it a problem.

2) From the dawn of PR I have missed my health-indicator. Bring it back...not for vehicles, but for yourself.

3) The bleeding generates hit-indicators, making it hard to distinguish bleeding from an actual hit.

4) The C4 has an annoying delay before being placed. This is realistic because, it would take a sec or two to get another one ready, but not the first one! The reload-indicator that you've put in for nades would be better here, rather than for nades.

5) Isn't it resonable that a sniper should have a Claymore or two?

6) The mounted MGs have to reload, but there is no animation for it. Now, since creating this is alot of work, I'd rather consider giving them unlimited ammo instead, until someone have taken the time to create such an animation. Hearing all the reload sounds and seeing nothing just creates an amateur impression.

Otherwise, loving it, playing it

Ferocious_Imbecile · Post by **Ferocious_Imbecile** » 2006-05-15 19:30

Man, I hate to be a big crybaby, but all I want to do is play this game...is there anybody else out there in Vancouver BC that is playing this game? I've never had it this bad with Vanilla BF2...

http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick ... 0&warned=y

Dark Ewok · Post by **Dark Ewok** » 2006-05-15 20:04

Poor guy.... The ping to the .:igi:. server is hilarious!
37698953ms!

I feel for you man!

Garack · Post by **Garack** » 2006-05-15 21:38

Zaitzev-A- wrote:Is it possible to get kill-messages on the screen as a server option? Our bunch are playing for fun and seeing who you kill/get killed by would be great. I know this probably goes against some players feel for realism, but as a server option we can play both ways.

Please Noooo!!

Thats the greatest Point of Tactical gameplay, long and very excitingly firefights.
you see when your oppenend is killed by a death animation!

Only some very less RO Servers had this Option (To disable kill messages) Server Sided on, cause there is an option!

Garack · Post by **Garack** » 2006-05-15 21:44

TweedleDee wrote:steel thunder is a good looking map, but that is all it is....

it has lagged on every server i have been on, wether its 5 people or 64. generally when the server switches to steel thunder i leave and look for another server.....

but.... the 16 player (smaller version of steel thunder is fine with no lagg) and even when there are 64 players on the 16 player map version, it seems to be big enough to accomadate that many players with little or minimal lagg....

For me nothing lagged, even i play at hight ping servers ( Server Browser in BF2 doesnt show right pings, Ingame pings are better)...Other Mods like OPK or USI or NAW lagged much more .

Ferocious_Imbecile · Post by **Ferocious_Imbecile** » 2006-05-16 00:04

Garack wrote:For me nothing lagged, even i play at hight ping servers ( Server Browser in BF2 doesnt show right pings, Ingame pings are better)...Other Mods like OPK or USI or NAW lagged much more .

Where can I see the in game pings?

And what is causing mods to have higher lags than Vanilla BF2?