More realistic Attack Helo missiles, other odds n' ends

[Hunt3r]

Attack Helicopters currently really have a good number of problems. One of which is the severe lack of a serviceable method to actually have the missiles be used effectively, since of a few crippling factors that render attack helicopters nearly useless:

• Camera not stabilized
• Lack of FLIR
• Lack of image contrast tracking modes.

Currently in PR, we have two methods of engagement with missiles:

1. Laser Guided: The missile goes towards the center of the screen, and is really beam-riding, descending with the helo if you suddenly drop.
2. Laser Targeted: The missile locks onto laser targets, and is fire and forget. The gunner may fire one, but the lase is usually completely inaccurate and quickly disappears. The spotter lase is better, but it still suffers from inaccuracy issues.

Now, the Apache, and undoubtedly any attack helicopter that uses similar Hellfire missiles, and also FLIR, will boast two modes for engaging with Hellfires. These would be:

1. The missile goes towards where the laser is pointed. It flies it's own path, regardless of the position of the attack helicopter lasing.
2. The sensor system locks onto image contrast, and automatically directs the laser so that the missile will collide with the target locked onto.

However, the sensor systems in these helicopters are ground-stabilized, which means that it is incredibly easy to keep the crosshair on target to collision, since little adjustment is required.

As a result of these differences from reality, my suggestion is as follows:

• Area target mode: The missile goes where you click, and it will go towards where you have your crosshair pointed when you click again.
• Point target mode: The missile locks onto lases, and it also locks onto vehicles with a 2-3 second lockup time.

This would make attack helicopter gunning far more realistic, and also far more effective then it currently is in PR.

[Dev1200]

Besides the "vehicle lock on", I'd like to see this. This is basically how the missiles are in nilla, where you "guide-per-click" instead of "follow my crosshair"


Although it doesn't work the nilla way IRL, there isn't a sound accurate way of doing it.



It seems like every weapon / vehicle in the game are only accurate if they aren't moving.. This is extremely terrible for the helos and also the tanks ingame.



Also, FLIR is being worked on.

[sylent/shooter]

NOT NILLA that thing was completely stupid. I do like the laze Idea though. And tanks are very accurate on the move....

[Dev1200]

Moving + Tanks = Lose unless your on flat ground. The lack of stability makes tanking a campout + roasting T72's or the first person to stop the tank wins the battle.

Accurate, yes. Precise, no.

Also, It's a way to do it accurately. Choppers ingame are definitely underpowered.. especially the attack helos such as Cobra and Apache.


Lazes are already ingame btw, and the "Auto Lock On" to vehicles is a little silly. You transform into a flying tow with lock on. No need for laze when you can just auto-rape anything.

[Hotrod525]

This is not only the AH64 and the UHYZ you known, Z10 and Mi28 is also underpowered, but everything you said is most likely impossible to acheive with the BF2 engine, yeah full stabilize turret, flir, auto-tracking and radar would be extremely nice, but its not feasable with the BF2 engine. ArmA2 arrowhead add all those feature, so go play with it whens its released

[Hunt3r]

Besides the "vehicle lock on", I'd like to see this. This is basically how the missiles are in nilla, where you "guide-per-click" instead of "follow my crosshair"

But instead of having a camera on the missile, the camera stays in the guncam view as it is in reality.

The LG mode in PR would really be fine if we had working stabilization, but we have to make do with what we have, which is in this case, the area mode I described.

Lazes are already ingame btw, and the "Auto Lock On" to vehicles is a little silly. You transform into a flying tow with lock on. No need for laze when you can just auto-rape anything.

The problem is that currently it's almost a given that tank convoys don't need AAVs. The truth is that they do. There should not be a box indicating you have found an enemy vehicle, it should only show up once you lock it on. There should only be a very narrow angle at which the missile will lock too, as it is in reality. In order to keep the missile from being distracted, it should originate as close as possible to the center of the crosshairs, or else we might end up with lots of FF. You still really depend on spotters and FACs, because it is just far too easy to get shot down.

This is not only the AH64 and the UHYZ you known, Z10 and Mi28 is also underpowered, but everything you said is most likely impossible to acheive with the BF2 engine, yeah full stabilize turret, flir, auto-tracking and radar would be extremely nice, but its not feasable with the BF2 engine. ArmA2 arrowhead add all those feature, so go play with it whens its released

The stabilization problem can be gotten around by using the area track mode I proposed, FLIR can be achieved in day maps with some effects, auto-tracking has been done before (See vBF2's fighter-bombers), and radar isn't even fitted to helicopters, although it can be done on a certain level of realism within PR.

[McBumLuv]

I wonder what the possibilities of a LOAL Hellfire would be if we keep the GLTD.

/Sorry to derail the thread slightly, I'm actualy in complete agreement with the OP. It just seems the Dev's aren't as there's been no change ever since there's been a coded option 2.

[Zoddom]

NOT NILLA that thing was completely stupid. I do like the laze Idea though. And tanks are very accurate on the move....

IF we do that click-and-fly system, we would have to make it just as in vanilla. ive seen many videos of hellfire strikes, where the missile is guided by "first-person" view. (actually, i dont really know if you can switch between this cameramode and the one OP described irl, its already in OPK in the Bo-105)
Another method would be fire and forget, but if we want this to work accurately wed have to have that lock-onto-vehicles thing. otherwise it would be pretty useless against moving targets.

YouTube - Apache Takes Out IED Emplacement Team With A Hellfire Missile In Iraq

in this vid it looks like the missile is laser guided. if you look at the crosshair you see diagonal lines dissappearing after the missle hit the ground, i think those lines are the indicator for the active laser.
IMO its pretty realstic ingame. the problems OP has mentioned are only caused by pilots flying to fast / not hovering. that lasers are inaccurate is just not true and if youre a skilled helicopter team you will have no problems with anything.

edit:
just got the idea that you could change the GLTD to lase continuos while holding the left mouse button.
so the problems with dissappearing or wrong lases would be solved and hitting moving targets would also be easier. and we know that it works, cause LG mode works this way.
if there wasnt a suggestion before, i could open a new thread for ths idea.

[Kim Jong ill]

^^^ Hunter is a part of the CA community, no doubt he's trying to get their ideas implemented into PR via an alternative back door. I'd assume this is because the latest version of CA appears to be dead in the water and he wants to be a CAS hero again.

[AnimalMother.]

with regard to locking onto all vehicles would it be possible to make it so the gunner must keep his camera crosshair near to the vehicle for the duration of the missiles flight or else the lock is lost and the missile just goes straight and most likely miss?

make it so that it takes a while to locate and gain the lock.

this stops LG from just being fire and forget as the gunner must keep relative eyes on the vehicle but boost the effectiveness of the helicopter, leaving use still for the GLTD and lases.

dunno if that's been posted above, if it has i'm sorry i couldn't understand, hence writing in my own words

[Jigsaw]

As a result of these differences from reality, my suggestion is as follows:

• Area target mode: The missile goes where you click, and it will go towards where you have your crosshair pointed when you click again.
• Point target mode: The missile locks onto lases, and it also locks onto vehicles with a 2-3 second lockup time.

Not only has this been suggested before, you actually suggested it yourself:

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr-bf2-general-discussion/67499-attack-helos-discussion-7.html

As others in the thread have stated, the PR Team are well aware of CA's efforts and if they see something that should be in-game then that will be arranged.

Thread locked, OP infracted for re-suggesting his own suggestion. If you wish you may continue the discussion in the thread linked above.

Thanks