[Servers] Appeal to Server-Owners

[Zoddom]

I have to ask for clarification here, because I think there was a mistranslation.

The current context of your post indicates to me that you believe that a squadmember using an asset in a named squad is more skilled at using that asset than someone from just a general squad using the same asset.

ok hats obviously a mistranslation, i wanted to say that i dindt say that you are better when you open an asset-squad. but imho its far more professional aand improves teamplay.
have to read other comments first, i will edit.

edit:

Enforcing a named squad rule for assets is both short sighted and not going to happen.
For one, server operators should not be forced to run an exact copy of every other server; the game itself stays the same, but the rules are dependent on the server operators.

For two, the named asset rule only causes issues; if the squad named "APC" runs their vehicles into a river or into enemy AT, no one can say or do anything about it. The first come first serve or CO assignment rule is infinitely better because it means everyone gets a chance to play with the assets, and if someone's being useless a commander can step up and reserve assets for a specific squad. It's much more flexible, and gets rid of the regulars loading and immediately making the squad and locking it so only their buddies can play.

NO! thinking that its better without a squad asset rule is short sighted.
IF tehre is an asset squad which fucks up their assets, they will be resigned or kicked. IF there is NO squad rule and a squad fucks ab all over all over again ( ) and they still take asset, their argument is that they came first blabal. in addition its harder tod etect those guys wasting assets if tehre are no asset sqauds, tahts true i just saw it on ABC yamalia map, the russians NEVER had any airtransport because there was always some guy (or several) taking heli and crashing it. without an asset squad you jsut cant say if someones qualified to use an asset, if someones in my heli squad p.e. and has no voip and doesnt respond to my chat msgs i kick him. if he directly writes "i have no mic but i can hear you" i try to get along with him (as fas as theres no other gunner or driver with voip).

[ZephyrDark]

I have something short and quick to say about the first come first serve unless there is a CO rule on TG.

The main purpose of it is to promote teamwork and communication between squads. It also promotes the idea of getting a commander to run the team. Yes, it is sometimes annoying when someone from an APC squad goes ahead and takes a tank without asking, but on TG, if you don't like it, go Commander and run the team. If a server enforces a chain of command type rule it puts almost all the blame for those who make the orders. If a squadleader or CO tells a squad to do something stupid and they have to do it, you can't blame the squad, but you can blame the person who had them do it. I personally feel like this game needs more benefits for having a person going commander and stay as one. It just seems to me that people are against having commanders and the idea of having to follow orders...

[Murphy]

Well I think TG is a bad example as most of the regulars would be courteous enough to ask "Tank" sq if they can snag a tank, although with the influx of new players asset stealing is obviously more of an issue. Another factor is Mumble, basically between rounds people see what map is up next and start to sort out what they plan on doing for the round.

IE:
Player 1: Oh Silent Eagle is next, ok let's roll in a Bradley.
Player 2: Aight I'm game for getting pwned in a Bradley.
Player 3: Screw that I'm gonna go trans choppa
Player 4: HA TANKS FTW

So on and so forth.

Basically I think the real issue is not enough players are using mumble to co-ordinate, server rules be damned if the team can regular their own asset squads.

[jimbobjim]

In principal I believe the named squad rule is good but at times it can make the game Sooooo frustrating. At the best of times it creates a clear division of resources and responsibility that enhances the teamwork and game-play experience that makes PR so special. At its worst it devolves into a shouting match of "I had this first" "No! I we were the first APC squad" etc. and can end up ruining the game.

Example:
Two nights ago I was playing on a server with the asset named squad rule (IIRC it was HOG muttra) and at the start of a new round my friend and I decided we would take out the new AAV-7's. We checked the squad list, no APC or similar named squad so we named our squad "Amtrac", grabbed our crewmen kits and hopped in. Not 1 second later an eruption of "RETURN THE APC" and "YOU CANT TAKE THAT APC" started pouring out of the chat. Checking the squad list again I see that someone had created a squad after us named "BIG LAV". So i figure screw these guys, maybe if they were generic "APC squad I would apologize for our not entirely clear squad name but their name was simply wrong. I tell my driver to go and hope that the admins don't get involved when someone from the "BIG LAV" squad starts ramming us with a boat, driving up over the front and blocking us from leaving the carrier. Then the other AAV-7 starts shooting 40mm grenades at us. WTF?!?!?! 12 year olds! So upset they cant have their "big LAV" they decide to blow us up but not before i killed the boat. I grabbed another boat and had a great game as an inf squad.

Also I hate two man locked APC squads on maps with USMC carriers. Having 1 apc out is asking to get gang-raped by BTR's and MTLBs.

With regards to new players:

I think Co-Op has value in teaching the basics of vehicle driving and shooting but nothing can substitute for playing live enemies. I think the most important thing to do for the new players is to emphasize that in PR loosing assets hurts your team, both the hefty ticket penalty and the loss of the crucial firepower. Teach them that going out and killing 7 or 8 infantry before getting your APC hit by a TOW is not useful, especially in insurgency.

[Wh33lman]

your arguement for server admin rules is falling on deaf ears. assets go:

1st Whoevers in the clan
2nd Whoever claims the asset
3rd SOL

admins are hardcoded

[goguapsy]

eh?.. don't do what?

they name a squad

I was saying, I believe with time people will learn to name their squads like I did - starting off as infantry. And observing squad names.

[Zoddom]

im getting the feeling that the admins dont do their job good enough since the patch is out. jsut had a round in PR where one guy was always taking BH (he was in BH squad) and directly flew to a flag where an enemy tank was (known) and died 2 times, ut he kept dropping inf there completely unaware of the danger.... so i reported him 3 times, then an admin said "nevermind, rounds over soon anyway..."
im starting to get pssed of by people who obviously do not understand the meaning of PR at all !

[Ford_Jam]

Zoddom. Chill the hell out.

Sometimes we have some bad rounds where assets are lost and nothing is going right, other times we have amazing rounds which are simply awesome. That's just PR.
Saying that PR is being destroyed! by people who lose assets is a bit of an exagguration and regardless of server rules even the best pilots will have bad rounds either through error or just a superior opposition.

Forcing servers to adapt to specific rules is not the way to go.
Forcing players to play a specific way is not good game design, there needs to be aspects of freedom.

[Veterans-Gaming]

There is total confusion between COOP and TRAINING and this is where it all begins.
COOP is not training, we don't play it as training and it is some serious gaming.
Bots are way more lethal than humans and they usually don't miss. Our team play and tactics work great with this type of gaming.
Yes, the AI do-do (< lol heh) stupid shit, but they put up a good fight more often than not.
As for TRAINING in our Servers, we had to create a Training Server just so people could get used to this style of game play. People shouldn't be joining COOP servers learning to fly, drive, etc...We're not a test range. We have provided a Server for that purpose, only because there isn't one. We don't want trainee's or guys looking to learn in our "Main" COOP Servers, we want serious gamers, just like you do when playing in the Deployment Servers.

[tommytgun]

I completely agree about squad names. TBH I really hate it when people take our assets when in sniper squad/etc.

[Murphy]

I'd like to see some sort of death penalty for intentionally ramming into/attacking a friendly asset. Too many people try to me to stop my APC with roadblocks/small arms fire (even had LATs shot at me not to long ago) simply because they want the big toy (or even worse want me to pick them up...i mean really now if I had room chances are I would've stopped and told you to jump in, and if I do have free seats I don't have room for people without common sense). It brings me back to the good old days in the school yard play ground.

The first come first serve rule just goes to perpetuate this issue, unfortunately retards will always be retards as it's a choice not a gift.

[Gaz]

I'm not replying on my phone now, so can reply in more detail here from the team's POV.

1) CO-OP, as a training tool, is very good at teaching the basics. The BASICS. However, it's there primarily as singleplayer with an extension that you can have more freedom to squad up and play with friends in that environment you may be used to. The guys worked their nuts off with SP, and I'm glad it's there. A MP only element of PR was limiting PR's draw of playerbase. However, CO-OP has different vehicle handling (think choppers etc) and various comprimises to facilitate that fact that some code won't work in SP that does in MP. Therefore it's not the perfect tool and new players will always need to be 'blooded' on MP servers.

2) Whilst squad naming has varying effectiveness, depending on the server and teamplay ethos of the server, it is not up to the PR DEV Team to limit or restrict this in any way, for two main reasons;

i) We create the mod. The Server Admins run the servers. Whilst we greatly appreciate that PR runs on servers in the broad way of how we wish PR to be portrayed (for example, the server licence system) to all players new and old, we still do respect the server admins in that they pay and maintain the servers. Servers must be allowed some freedom of expression and that's not something we have any wish to limit any further. Servers appeal to different people for different reasons.

ii) The Max Squad limit. This is hard coded and with multiple locked 'mini-squads', this limit is reached very quickly. SL kits are useless to tankers and armour anyway. If you want my advice, consolidate in one FULL squad, use VOIP (if not Mumble) to discuss who takes what in a mature manner, and get on with it.

With the above points, there's only so much the dev team are willing to/can go to cater for our complete playerbase to be an enabler for the niche. It's truly down to the maturity of players, the orders of in-game COs and of course, server admins to moderate how squads are formed and function. NOT the dev team.

Regarding new or returning players, we have historically always had a community who would mentor new players on live servers. We do appreicate this as a team, and is an essential point of the established community when trying to ensure the continued popularity of the mod with the 'next generation'. Of course, you will also get a share of asset whores who just want to try and play with the new toys after a release too, but there's little we can do about that until the new release hype settles down and the player numbers stabilise.

In short, everyone has a part to play. Just do not expect the Mod team to only cater and therefore create for the VERY niche, even though that's how PR is best played. Otherwise we will shoot ourselves in the foot.

[Veterans-Gaming]

There is total confusion between COOP and TRAINING and this is where it all begins.
COOP is not training, we don't play it as training and it is some serious gaming.
Bots are way more lethal than humans and they usually don't miss. Our team play and tactics work great with this type of gaming.
Yes, the AI do-do (< lol heh) stupid shit, but they put up a good fight more often than not.
As for TRAINING in our Servers, we had to create a Training Server just so people could get used to this style of game play. People shouldn't be joining COOP servers learning to fly, drive, etc...We're not a test range. We have provided a Server for that purpose, only because there isn't one. We don't want trainee's or guys looking to learn in our "Main" COOP Servers, we want serious gamers, just like you do when playing in the Deployment Servers.

With regards to this post, I would like to make it clear, we do welcome those new to PR in our servers, we are a great place to learn PR and how to play it the correct way. We have the most fun while doing this so please don't misunderstand. We're speaking of the people who just come around, wreck everything, leave and repeat. If that's you...Piss off to the training server!

[Akela]

Hi

I've read through this whole thread, and being a noob first time PR player something has occurred to me...


Where are these rules you speak of?
Are they written down somewhere?
Is there some server etiquette post to reference?
How do you set up and use the various voice coms (some don't know)
How about these game adopted abbreviations?

I ask genuinely, because I don't know the answers to these questions, and I want to learn, and play the game right, with the focus on cooperation while learning the game.

Yes - I have read the guide. It was very informative, however I still have questions to ask about the game, the interface, the "gamestyle" people play. What the server names "mean", for example.


There are a lot of assumptions going on in this thread, and some of them maybe true, however speaking from a "noob" right out of boot camp, as every one that has ever gone finds, there is a lot more to anything than just reading about it....



my 2 cents

Tammerion

[Zerostar11]

I think its the responiblity of the more experienced PR players to help teach the newer ones. If we all help one new PR player, there will be a world filled with more teamwork.

[Kingy]

No server's shouldnt have set rules; I doubt the DEV's could enforce this anyway. Plus If you can't run a server the way you want it, why bother running it at all?

Personally I find the the simplest and fairest way to sort out assets is first come first serve basis. If there are 3 tanks and 2 people make a locked tank squad first they however should not be entitled to all of these tanks, therefore 4 more people can make a seperate tank squad. I like TG's way of the commander get's the last call for assigning assets but for most servers getting a commander in the first place can be difficult enough.
If less skilled players take and reserve an asset first, then end up wasting them because they are still learning - personally I do not see a problem with this.
I have to remind myself sometimes that it is only a game and really it doesn't matter if we win or lose, why should we stop people who are still newbies when it comes to heavy assets from using them? Just because they perhaps aren't doing very well doesn't mean that they should be allowed to enjoy themselves, plus who are we to say that they aren't good enough for such an asset and that they are ruining the game by using them poorly? Everyone has to learn at some point. (Of course there are exceptions - like people flying that cannot land jets etc...)

[Gaz]

Hi

I've read through this whole thread, and being a noob first time PR player something has occurred to me...


Where are these rules you speak of?
Are they written down somewhere?
Is there some server etiquette post to reference?
How do you set up and use the various voice coms (some don't know)
How about these game adopted abbreviations?

I ask genuinely, because I don't know the answers to these questions, and I want to learn, and play the game right, with the focus on cooperation while learning the game.

Yes - I have read the guide. It was very informative, however I still have questions to ask about the game, the interface, the "gamestyle" people play. What the server names "mean", for example.


There are a lot of assumptions going on in this thread, and some of them maybe true, however speaking from a "noob" right out of boot camp, as every one that has ever gone finds, there is a lot more to anything than just reading about it....



my 2 cents

Tammerion

Welcome to the forums Tammerion. Thanks for sticking around and your post shows that you are exactly what PR wishes to attract in new blood. You took the time to speak up and say you wish to pick up more info. Do not be scared to ask for more info on anything regarding the mod, whether it's on the forums, mumble, VOIP or otherwise. If the guys know the answer, you'll usually get it I agree with you, and hope my last post puts across that PR cannot be learnt out of the box whilst it installs from reading the manual. Established players need to remember that.

I'm a red tag dev who's played very little ingame over the past year, but has got back into it with .95. I ask daft questions too, believe me. I also get laughed at Gits.

[Hans Martin Slayer]

However, CO-OP has different vehicle handling (think choppers etc) and various comprimises to facilitate that fact that some code won't work in SP that does in MP. Therefore it's not the perfect tool and new players will always need to be 'blooded' on MP servers.

Just to clarify a bit - only the AI assets (not all) have a different handling, BUT since this release we only got MP assets at the main bases for the human players. Bots and their tweaked vehicles spawn somewhere else to avoid any mix-ups.

Ofc, we had f**k ups on some maps (sorry for Karbala guys ) - but we'll make sure to keep it seperated in the future.

A good example is Kashan: there are only MP assets at both main bases, bots have all their stuff spawning far away at a different location.

[IAJTHOMAS]

I rarely name my squads after the assets I intend to use, and I don't always use the same assets all round, depending on what the team needs at a given time. Rarely have complaints about the effectiveness of my squad's asset use.

[Veterans-Gaming]

Just to clarify a bit - only the AI assets (not all) have a different handling, BUT since this release we only got MP assets at the main bases for the human players. Bots and their tweaked vehicles spawn somewhere else to avoid any mix-ups.

Ofc, we had f**k ups on some maps (sorry for Karbala guys ) - but we'll make sure to keep it seperated in the future.

A good example is Kashan: there are only MP assets at both main bases, bots have all their stuff spawning far away at a different location.

We're here to help you make it great for everyone, if we can assist just let me know. We have loads of talent and experience with COOP.

Blud